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	<title>berserko.org &#187; calvinism</title>
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	<category>Religion and Spirituality: Christianity</category>
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		<title>berserko.org &#187; calvinism</title>
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	<itunes:summary>Silliness rises from the ashes</itunes:summary>
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		<title>2009-12-16 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 22:  Perseverance of the Saints</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/12/29/2009-12-16-david-watson-calvinism-part-22-perseverance-of-the-saints/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/12/29/2009-12-16-david-watson-calvinism-part-22-perseverance-of-the-saints/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[perseverance of the saints]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 22:? Perseverance of the Saints By David Watson Benchley, December 16, 2009 Romans 8:28-39? and John 10:27-29, continued: This passage is talking about external forces, not sin. Matthew 6:19 Isaiah 59:1-2?- Sin causes separation from God. Some argue that although fellowship with God may be lost, our relationship with God can never be [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 22:? Perseverance of the Saints</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, December 16, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+8%3A28-39">Romans  8:28-39</a>? and <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+10%3A27-29">John 10:27-29</a>,  continued:
<ul>
<li>This passage is talking about external forces, not sin.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+6%3A19">Matthew  6:19</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Isa+59%3A1-2">Isaiah  59:1-2</a>?- Sin causes separation from God.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Some argue that although fellowship with God may be lost, our relationship  with God can never be broken.
<ul>
<li>This contradicts a variety of Bible passages.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Bible-ism (as opposed to Calvinism):
<ul>
<li>Total ability &#8211; We have the ability to choose to serve God.</li>
<li>Conditional election &#8211; We must be faithful to God.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+2%3A3">I John 2:3</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+5%3A28-29">John  5:28-29</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Unlimited atonement?- All have the opportunity to obtain salvation.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+2%3A2">I John 2:2</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Heb+2%3A9">Hebrews 2:9</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Tit+2%3A11">Titus 2:11</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=2Pe+3%3A9">II Peter  3:9</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Resistable grace (accountability)</li>
<li>Faithfulness of saints &#8211; We must be faithful to obtain salvation.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/747/0/2009-12-16-david-watson-calvinism-part-22-perseverance-of-the-saints.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 22:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 16, 2009

	Romans  8:28-39? and John 10:27-29,  continued:

	This passage is talking ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 22:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 16, 2009

	Romans  8:28-39? and John 10:27-29,  continued:

	This passage is talking about external forces, not sin.
	Matthew  6:19
	Isaiah  59:1-2?- Sin causes separation from God.


	Some argue that although fellowship with God may be lost, our relationship  with God can never be broken.

	This contradicts a variety of Bible passages.


	Bible-ism (as opposed to Calvinism):

	Total ability - We have the ability to choose to serve God.
	Conditional election - We must be faithful to God.

	I John 2:3;  John  5:28-29


	Unlimited atonement?- All have the opportunity to obtain salvation.

	I John 2:2;  Hebrews 2:9; Titus 2:11; II Peter  3:9


	Resistable grace (accountability)
	Faithfulness of saints - We must be faithful to obtain salvation.


</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
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		<title>2009-12-09 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 21:  Perseverance of the Saints</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-09-david-watson-calvinism-part-21-perseverance-of-the-saints/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-09-david-watson-calvinism-part-21-perseverance-of-the-saints/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[perseverance of the saints]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-09-david-watson-calvinism-part-21-perseverance-of-the-saints</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 21:? Perseverance of the Saints By David Watson Benchley, December 9, 2009 Colossians 1:21-23 Hebrews 3-4 Hebrews 6:4-6 James 5:19-20 II Peter 1:10-11 What answer is given to these passages? Calvinists argue that God requires us to &#8220;persevere to the end&#8221; and say that &#8220;Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 21:? Perseverance of the Saints</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, December 9, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Col+1%3A21-23">Colossians  1:21-23</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Heb+3-4">Hebrews  3-4</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Heb+6%3A4-6">Hebrews  6:4-6</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+5%3A19-20">James  5:19-20</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=2Pe+1%3A10-11">II Peter  1:10-11</a></li>
<li>What answer is given to these passages?
<ul>
<li>Calvinists argue that God requires us to &#8220;persevere to the end&#8221; and say that  &#8220;Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone.&#8221;? Their line of  reasoning is that God preserves those who truly believe, but God also requires  us to persevere in faith to the end, which appears to be circular  reasoning.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Proof-texts used by Calvinists:
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+6%3A9">Galatians  6:9</a>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;(A mere intellectual assent is insufficient; perseverance in our works must  prove that our faith is genuine.)? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+2%3A14">James 2:14</a>&#8220;</li>
<li>&#8220;<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=2Pe+2%3A17-22">II Peter  2:17-22</a>?(To not persevere and to turn back to the corruption of the world is  to destroy our souls.)&#8221;</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+8%3A28-39">Romans  8:28-39</a>?and <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+10%3A27-29">John  10:27-29</a>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;God will never allow them to stray permanently away from the love of  Christ.? (<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+8%3A28-39">Romans  8:28-39</a>).&#8221;</li>
<li>This passage is talking about external forces, not sin.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-09-david-watson-calvinism-part-21-perseverance-of-the-saints/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/739/0/2009-12-09-david-watson-calvinism-part-21-perseverance-of-the-saints.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 21:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 9, 2009

	Colossians  1:21-23
	Hebrews  3-4
	Hebrews  6:4-6
	James  5:19-20
	II Peter  ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 21:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 9, 2009

	Colossians  1:21-23
	Hebrews  3-4
	Hebrews  6:4-6
	James  5:19-20
	II Peter  1:10-11
	What answer is given to these passages?

	Calvinists argue that God requires us to "persevere to the end" and say that  "Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone."? Their line of  reasoning is that God preserves those who truly believe, but God also requires  us to persevere in faith to the end, which appears to be circular  reasoning.


	Proof-texts used by Calvinists:

	Galatians  6:9

	"(A mere intellectual assent is insufficient; perseverance in our works must  prove that our faith is genuine.)? James 2:14"
	"II Peter  2:17-22?(To not persevere and to turn back to the corruption of the world is  to destroy our souls.)"


	Romans  8:28-39?and John  10:27-29

	"God will never allow them to stray permanently away from the love of  Christ.? (Romans  8:28-39)."
	This passage is talking about external forces, not sin.




</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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		<item>
		<title>2009-12-02 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 20:  Perseverance of the Saints</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-02-david-watson-calvinism-part-20-perseverance-of-the-saints/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-02-david-watson-calvinism-part-20-perseverance-of-the-saints/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[perseverance of the saints]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-02-david-watson-calvinism-part-20-perseverance-of-the-saints</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 20:? Perseverance of the Saints By David Watson Benchley, December 2, 2009 Ezekiel 18:24-28 Acts 8:13-24?- Simon was a baptized believer.? Why would he need to repent and pray if he could not be lost? Romans 11:11-23 I Corinthians 9:19-27?- Paul himself did not want to become disqualified. Galatians 5:1-4?- Paul warns of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 20:? Perseverance of the Saints</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, December 2, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Eze+18%3A24-28">Ezekiel  18:24-28</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+8%3A13-24">Acts  8:13-24</a>?- Simon was a baptized believer.? Why would he need to repent and  pray if he could not be lost?</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+11%3A11-23">Romans  11:11-23</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Co+9%3A19-27">I  Corinthians 9:19-27</a>?- Paul himself did not want to become disqualified.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+5%3A1-4">Galatians  5:1-4</a>?- Paul warns of falling from grace.</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://berserko.org/2009/12/28/2009-12-02-david-watson-calvinism-part-20-perseverance-of-the-saints/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/733/0/2009-12-02-david-watson-calvinism-part-20-perseverance-of-the-saints.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 20:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 2, 2009

	Ezekiel  18:24-28
	Acts  8:13-24?- Simon was a baptized believer.? Why ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 20:? Perseverance of the Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, December 2, 2009

	Ezekiel  18:24-28
	Acts  8:13-24?- Simon was a baptized believer.? Why would he need to repent and  pray if he could not be lost?
	Romans  11:11-23
	I  Corinthians 9:19-27?- Paul himself did not want to become disqualified.
	Galatians  5:1-4?- Paul warns of falling from grace.
</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>2009-11-25 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 19:  John Calvin and Perseverance of the Saints</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-25-david-watson-calvinism-part-19-john-calvin-and-perseverance-of-the-saints/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-25-david-watson-calvinism-part-19-john-calvin-and-perseverance-of-the-saints/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Calvin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[perseverance of the saints]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-25-david-watson-calvinism-part-19-john-calvin-and-perseverance-of-the-saints</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 19:? John Calvin and Perseverance of the Saints By David Watson Benchley, November 25, 2009 Calvin believed there to be four offices within the church: Pastors:? did the preaching.? Ephesians 4:11?(Pastor means shepherd, elder.? I Peter 5:1) Doctors:? were teachers of theology and instructed the pastors when needed. Elders:? enforced the moral standard [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 19:? John Calvin and Perseverance of the  Saints</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, November 25, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Calvin believed there to be four offices within the church:
<ul>
<li>Pastors:? did the preaching.? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Eph+4%3A11">Ephesians  4:11</a>?(Pastor means shepherd, elder.? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Pe+5%3A1">I Peter 5:1</a>)</li>
<li>Doctors:? were teachers of theology and instructed the pastors when  needed.</li>
<li>Elders:? enforced the moral standard and exercised discipline when  necessary.</li>
<li>Deacons</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Handling religious differences:
<ul>
<li>Jerome Bolsec: ?banished from Geneva because of his differences with Calvin  about predestination.</li>
<li>Servetus: ?was an anti-trinitarian.? Convicted by both Catholics and  Reformation and burned as a heretic.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+15">Acts 15</a> <img src='http://berserko.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' />   resolving the question of circumcision.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Calvin&#8217;s influence spread widely across Europe and England.</li>
<li>Perseverance of saints (or &#8220;security of believers&#8221;):
<ul>
<li>Once truly saved, one cannot fall away.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/725/0/2009-11-25-david-watson-calvinism-part-19-john-calvin-and-persistence-of-the-saints.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 19:? John Calvin and Perseverance of the  Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, November 25, 2009

	Calvin believed there to be four offices ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 19:? John Calvin and Perseverance of the  Saints

By David Watson

Benchley, November 25, 2009

	Calvin believed there to be four offices within the church:

	Pastors:? did the preaching.? Ephesians  4:11?(Pastor means shepherd, elder.? I Peter 5:1)
	Doctors:? were teachers of theology and instructed the pastors when  needed.
	Elders:? enforced the moral standard and exercised discipline when  necessary.
	Deacons


	Handling religious differences:

	Jerome Bolsec: ?banished from Geneva because of his differences with Calvin  about predestination.
	Servetus: ?was an anti-trinitarian.? Convicted by both Catholics and  Reformation and burned as a heretic.
	Acts 15:?  resolving the question of circumcision.


	Calvin's influence spread widely across Europe and England.
	Perseverance of saints (or "security of believers"):

	Once truly saved, one cannot fall away.


</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
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		<item>
		<title>2009-11-18 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 18:  John Calvin</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-18-david-watson-calvinism-part-18-john-calvin/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-18-david-watson-calvinism-part-18-john-calvin/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Calvin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/12/12/2009-11-18-david-watson-calvinism-part-18-john-calvin</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 18:? John Calvin By David Watson Benchley, November 18, 2009 Beliefs of John Calvin: No musical instruments. Sing only psalms.? (Only Psalms from the book of Psalms could be sung in worship.) New Testament versus Old Testament.? (Doctrines and ceremonies from the Old Testament are not applicable today.) The church Believed there were [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 18:? John Calvin</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, November 18, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Beliefs of John Calvin:
<ul>
<li>No musical instruments.</li>
<li>Sing only psalms.? (Only Psalms from the book of Psalms could be sung in  worship.)</li>
<li>New Testament versus Old Testament.? (Doctrines and ceremonies from the Old  Testament are not applicable today.)</li>
<li>The church
<ul>
<li>Believed there were four offices:
<ul>
<li>Pastors</li>
<li>Doctors</li>
<li>Elders</li>
<li>Deacons</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/717/0/2009-11-18-david-watson-calvinism-part-18-john-calvin.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 18:? John Calvin

By David Watson

Benchley, November 18, 2009

	Beliefs of John Calvin:

	No musical instruments.
	Sing only psalms.? (Only Psalms from the book ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 18:? John Calvin

By David Watson

Benchley, November 18, 2009

	Beliefs of John Calvin:

	No musical instruments.
	Sing only psalms.? (Only Psalms from the book of Psalms could be sung in  worship.)
	New Testament versus Old Testament.? (Doctrines and ceremonies from the Old  Testament are not applicable today.)
	The church

	Believed there were four offices:

	Pastors
	Doctors
	Elders
	Deacons






</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>2009-10-28 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 16:  Irresistible Grace</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/11/02/2009-10-28-david-watson-calvinism-part-16-irresistible-grace/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/11/02/2009-10-28-david-watson-calvinism-part-16-irresistible-grace/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[irresistible grace]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/11/02/2009-10-28-david-watson-calvinism-part-16-irresistible-grace</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 16:? Irresistible Grace By David Watson Benchley, October 28, 2009 I John 5:1, continued First, what scripture teaches us that the phrase &#8220;bord of God&#8221; refers to the event of irresistible frace (a &#8220;divine act of regeneration&#8221;)? I Peter 1:23-25; 1:3; James 1:18; John 3:3-7; Romans 6:4 Second, what difference does it make [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 16:? Irresistible Grace</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, October 28, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+5%3A1">I John 5:1</a>,  continued
<ul>
<li>First, what scripture teaches us that the phrase &#8220;bord of God&#8221; refers to the  event of irresistible frace (a &#8220;divine act of regeneration&#8221;)?
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Pe+1%3A23-25">I Peter  1:23-25</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Pe+1%3A3">1:3</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+1%3A18">James 1:18</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+3%3A3-7">John 3:3-7</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+6%3A4">Romans 6:4</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Second, what difference does it make if one believes after he is born of  God?? That doesn&#8217;t prove that he couldn&#8217;t believe <em>before</em> he was born of  God.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+2%3A19">James 2:19</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mk+16%3A16">Mark 16:16</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+20%3A31">John 20:31</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+16%3A30-31">Acts  16:30-31</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+9%3A9">Matthew 9:9</a>?-  Jesus calling Matthew to be an apostle
<ul>
<li>Calvinists uses this as a proof text for irresistible grace.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Lk+6%3A12">Luke 6:12</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Co+9%3A27">I Corinthians  9:27</a>?- Jesus prayed for the apostles and Paul was careful not to lose his  own soul.</li>
<li>Calvinists assume that Matthew was saved at the point that Jesus chose him.?  This isn&#8217;t necessarily the case.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Lk+3%3A12-13">Luke  3:12-13</a>?- Calvinists argue that Matthew was totally depraved.? Just being a  tax collector didn&#8217;t make Matthew a sinner.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>A new creation
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=2Co+5%3A17-18">II  Corinthians 5:17-18</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+6%3A15">Galatians  6:15</a></li>
<li>Calvinists argue that irresistible grace acts on a person to make them into  a new creature.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+6%3A3-4">Romans  6:3-4</a>,<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+6%3A11-13">11-13</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Col+3%3A9-10">Colossians  3:9-10</a>?- Man must make the <strong>choice</strong> to obey God.? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+6%3A15-16">Romans 6:15-16</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+1%3A18">James  1:18</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/683/0/2009-10-28-david-watson-calvinism-part-16-irresistible-grace.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 16:? Irresistible Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 28, 2009

	I John 5:1,  continued

	First, what scripture teaches us that the phrase "bord ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 16:? Irresistible Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 28, 2009

	I John 5:1,  continued

	First, what scripture teaches us that the phrase "bord of God" refers to the  event of irresistible frace (a "divine act of regeneration")?

	I Peter  1:23-25; 1:3; James 1:18; John 3:3-7; Romans 6:4


	Second, what difference does it make if one believes after he is born of  God?? That doesn't prove that he couldn't believe before he was born of  God.

	James 2:19;  Mark 16:16; John 20:31; Acts  16:30-31




	Matthew 9:9?-  Jesus calling Matthew to be an apostle

	Calvinists uses this as a proof text for irresistible grace.
	Luke 6:12;  I Corinthians  9:27?- Jesus prayed for the apostles and Paul was careful not to lose his  own soul.
	Calvinists assume that Matthew was saved at the point that Jesus chose him.?  This isn't necessarily the case.
	Luke  3:12-13?- Calvinists argue that Matthew was totally depraved.? Just being a  tax collector didn't make Matthew a sinner.


	A new creation

	II  Corinthians 5:17-18; Galatians  6:15
	Calvinists argue that irresistible grace acts on a person to make them into  a new creature.
	Romans  6:3-4,11-13; Colossians  3:9-10?- Man must make the choice to obey God.? Romans 6:15-16;  James  1:18


</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
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		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
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		<item>
		<title>2009-10-21 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 15:  Irresistible Grace</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/10/26/2009-10-21-david-watson-calvinism-part-15-irresistible-grace/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/10/26/2009-10-21-david-watson-calvinism-part-15-irresistible-grace/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[irresistible grace]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/10/26/2009-10-21-david-watson-calvinism-part-15-irresistible-grace</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 15:? Irresistible Grace By David Watson Benchley, October 21, 2009 The call of the gospel is effective. John 7:37; Matthew 11:28-30 I Corinthians 2:14-15?- This would seem to support the Calvinist view because it says the natural man cannot understand. John 20:30-31?- Reading can produce belief! Luke 8:11-15?- This parable cannot fit with [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 15:? Irresistible Grace</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, October 21, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>The call of the gospel <em>is</em> effective.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+7%3A37">John 7:37</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+11%3A28-30">Matthew  11:28-30</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Co+2%3A14-15">I  Corinthians 2:14-15</a>?- This would seem to support the Calvinist view because  it says the natural man cannot understand.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+20%3A30-31">John  20:30-31</a>?- Reading can produce belief!</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Lk+8%3A11-15">Luke  8:11-15</a>?- This parable cannot fit with Calvinism.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+4%3A7">James 4:7</a>?-  Why resist the devil if God&#8217;s inward call cannot be resisted?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+1%3A15-16">Romans  1:15-16</a>?- Why would Paul preach a gospel that could not save (according to  Calvinism)?</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A20">John  17:20</a>?- Jesus prayed for belief in those that heard the word.
<ul>
<li>Acts 2:36ff &#8211; People were touched by hearing Peter&#8217;s sermon.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+11%3A13">Acts 11:13</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+15%3A7">15:7</a>?- Belief  would come by hearing.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+10%3A17">Romans  10:17</a>?- Faith comes by hearing.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+5%3A1">I John 5:1</a>?-  Calvinists argue that God&#8217;s grace precedes belief.
<ul>
<li>Compare <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+2%3A29">I John  2:29</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+4%3A7">4:7</a></li>
<li>Being born of God does not just happen to man.? It is something that man  <strong>chooses</strong> to do.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Pe+1%3A23-25">I Peter  1:23-25</a>?- Being born of God happens through the word of God.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jas+1%3A18">James  1:18</a>?- We are brought forth by the word of truth.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/672/0/2009-10-21-david-watson-calvinism-part-15-irresistible-grace.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 15:? Irresistible Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 21, 2009

	The call of the gospel is effective.

	John 7:37;  Matthew  11:28-30
	I  ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 15:? Irresistible Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 21, 2009

	The call of the gospel is effective.

	John 7:37;  Matthew  11:28-30
	I  Corinthians 2:14-15?- This would seem to support the Calvinist view because  it says the natural man cannot understand.

	John  20:30-31?- Reading can produce belief!
	Luke  8:11-15?- This parable cannot fit with Calvinism.
	James 4:7?-  Why resist the devil if God's inward call cannot be resisted?


	Romans  1:15-16?- Why would Paul preach a gospel that could not save (according to  Calvinism)?
	John  17:20?- Jesus prayed for belief in those that heard the word.

	Acts 2:36ff - People were touched by hearing Peter's sermon.
	Acts 11:13;  15:7?- Belief  would come by hearing.
	Romans  10:17?- Faith comes by hearing.


	I John 5:1?-  Calvinists argue that God's grace precedes belief.

	Compare I John  2:29; 4:7
	Being born of God does not just happen to man.? It is something that man  chooses to do.
	I Peter  1:23-25?- Being born of God happens through the word of God.
	James  1:18?- We are brought forth by the word of truth.




</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
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		<title>2009-10-14 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 14:  Ulrich Zwingli, Anabaptists, and Irresistible Grace</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/10/19/2009-10-14-david-watson-calvinism-part-14-ulrich-zwingli-anabaptists-and-irresistible-grace/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/10/19/2009-10-14-david-watson-calvinism-part-14-ulrich-zwingli-anabaptists-and-irresistible-grace/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anabaptists]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[irresistible grace]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ulrich Zwingli]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/10/19/2009-10-14-david-watson-calvinism-part-14-ulrich-zwingli-anabaptists-and-irresistible-grace</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 14:? Ulrich Zwingli, Anabaptists, and Irresistible Grace By David Watson Benchley, October 14, 2009 Calvinists argue that &#8220;the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ.&#8221; They also argue that the Holy Spirit makes an outward call to sinners (hearing the gospel) and an inward [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 14:? Ulrich Zwingli, Anabaptists, and Irresistible  Grace</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, October 14, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Calvinists argue that &#8220;the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation  those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ.&#8221;
<ul>
<li>They also argue that the Holy Spirit makes an outward call to sinners  (hearing the gospel) and an inward call.? The outward call can be refused, but  the inward call cannot.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+7%3A51">Acts  7:51</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+11%3A28">Matthew  11:28</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+7%3A37">John  7:37</a>?- Calvinists argue that although Christ&#8217;s call is sincere, man&#8217;s  totally deprived state means that no one can answer the call.</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/663/0/2009-10-14-david-watson-calvinism-part-14-ulrich-zwingli-anabaptists-and-irresistible-grace.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 14:? Ulrich Zwingli, Anabaptists, and Irresistible  Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 14, 2009

	Calvinists argue that "the Holy Spirit never fails ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 14:? Ulrich Zwingli, Anabaptists, and Irresistible  Grace

By David Watson

Benchley, October 14, 2009

	Calvinists argue that "the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation  those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ."

	They also argue that the Holy Spirit makes an outward call to sinners  (hearing the gospel) and an inward call.? The outward call can be refused, but  the inward call cannot.


	Acts  7:51
	Matthew  11:28; John  7:37?- Calvinists argue that although Christ's call is sincere, man's  totally deprived state means that no one can answer the call.
</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
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		<title>2009-09-30 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 13:  Limited Atonement and Ulrich Zwingli</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/09/30/2009-09-30-david-watson-calvinism-part-13-limited-atonement-and-ulrich-zwingli/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/09/30/2009-09-30-david-watson-calvinism-part-13-limited-atonement-and-ulrich-zwingli/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 02:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[limited atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ulrich Zwingli]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 13:? Limited Atonement and Ulrich Zwingli By David Watson Benchley, September 30, 2009 Did Jesus come to save or to make men savable (continued)? Galatians 1:3?- Calvinists use this passage to argue that Jesus saves, not that He came to make men savable. I Timothy 1:15 Answer:? the fact that Jesus saves does [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 13:? Limited Atonement and Ulrich Zwingli</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, September 30, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Did Jesus come to save or to make men savable (continued)?
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+1%3A3">Galatians  1:3</a>?- Calvinists use this passage to argue that Jesus saves, not that He  came to make men savable.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Ti+1%3A15">I Timothy  1:15</a></li>
<li>Answer:? the fact that Jesus saves does not exclude the fact that man also  has responsibility.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+8%3A24">John  8:24</a></li>
<li>The Calvinist always looks at these issues with the idea that if anything  depends upon man, God is no longer sovereign.? But the fact is, God has always  allowed people to make their own choices which then affect outcomes.
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ex+12%3A7">Exodus  12:7</a>,<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ex+12%3A12-13">12-13</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Nu+21%3A7-9">Numbers 21:7-9</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Dt+11%3A26-28">Deuteronomy  11:26-28</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>God&#8217;s sovereignty is not threatened by man&#8217;s choices.? The reason for this  is that God is the final judge.? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ecc+11%3A9">Ecclesiastes  11:9</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Both.? The Calvinist is trying to force a distinction into the Bible  here.</li>
<li>He Himself said there are conditions.? (<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+7%3A21">Matthew 7:21</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mk+16%3A16">Mark 16:16</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+8%3A24">John 8:24</a>,  etc.)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Arminianism
<ul>
<li>The five points of Calvinism came about in a synod convened to consider five  points of faith brought up by Arminius.? The synod decided that Arminius&#8217; points  of faith were not scriptural and so rejected them and decided on the five points  of Calvinism to combat his teaching.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Ulrich Zwingli? (January 1, 1484 &#8211; October 11, 1531)
<ul>
<li>Swiss chaplain and preacher who preached against being a mercenary (and  indulgences).</li>
<li>Read a copy of the <em>Novum Testamentum Omne</em> from Desiderius Erasmus  in 1516, the first complete New Testament in Greek in many, many years.</li>
<li>The sausage supper.
<ul>
<li>March 1522:? sausage supper during Lent.</li>
<li>Sermon:? &#8220;On the Choice and Freedom of Food&#8221;</li>
<li>This became the start of the Reformation in Switzerland.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/648/0/2009-09-30-david-watson-calvinism-part-13-limited-atonement-and-ulrich-zwingli.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 13:? Limited Atonement and Ulrich Zwingli

By David Watson

Benchley, September 30, 2009

	Did Jesus come to save or to make men savable ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 13:? Limited Atonement and Ulrich Zwingli

By David Watson

Benchley, September 30, 2009

	Did Jesus come to save or to make men savable (continued)?

	Galatians  1:3?- Calvinists use this passage to argue that Jesus saves, not that He  came to make men savable.
	I Timothy  1:15
	Answer:? the fact that Jesus saves does not exclude the fact that man also  has responsibility.

	John  8:24
	The Calvinist always looks at these issues with the idea that if anything  depends upon man, God is no longer sovereign.? But the fact is, God has always  allowed people to make their own choices which then affect outcomes.

	Exodus  12:7,12-13; Numbers 21:7-9;  Deuteronomy  11:26-28


	God's sovereignty is not threatened by man's choices.? The reason for this  is that God is the final judge.? Ecclesiastes  11:9


	Both.? The Calvinist is trying to force a distinction into the Bible  here.
	He Himself said there are conditions.? (Matthew 7:21; Mark 16:16; John 8:24,  etc.)


	Arminianism

	The five points of Calvinism came about in a synod convened to consider five  points of faith brought up by Arminius.? The synod decided that Arminius' points  of faith were not scriptural and so rejected them and decided on the five points  of Calvinism to combat his teaching.


	Ulrich Zwingli? (January 1, 1484 - October 11, 1531)

	Swiss chaplain and preacher who preached against being a mercenary (and  indulgences).
	Read a copy of the Novum Testamentum Omne from Desiderius Erasmus  in 1516, the first complete New Testament in Greek in many, many years.
	The sausage supper.

	March 1522:? sausage supper during Lent.
	Sermon:? "On the Choice and Freedom of Food"
	This became the start of the Reformation in Switzerland.




</itunes:summary>
		<itunes:keywords>Bible Study, Mark's stuff</itunes:keywords>
		<itunes:author>mark@synistralia.com</itunes:author>
		<itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
		<itunes:block>no</itunes:block>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>2009-09-23 &#8211; David Watson &#8211; Calvinism Part 12:  Limited Atonement</title>
		<link>http://berserko.org/2009/09/23/2009-09-23-david-watson-calvinism-part-12-limited-atonement/</link>
		<comments>http://berserko.org/2009/09/23/2009-09-23-david-watson-calvinism-part-12-limited-atonement/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark's stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[class recordings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[limited atonement]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://berserko.org/2009/09/23/2009-09-23-david-watson-calvinism-part-12-limited-atonement</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Calvinism Part 12:? Limited Atonement By David Watson Benchley, September 23, 2009 I Timothy 2:3-6 Titus 2:11-14 Hebrews 2:9 I Peter 3:9 I John 2:1-2 John 10:11-16 Calvinists use this passage to support their beliefs on limited atonement.? They claim that the sheep here are the &#8220;elect&#8221;. This passage does not say who the elect [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>   <strong>Calvinism Part 12:? Limited Atonement</strong></p>
<p><strong>By David Watson</strong></p>
<p><strong>Benchley, September 23, 2009</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Ti+2%3A3-6">I Timothy  2:3-6</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Tit+2%3A11-14">Titus  2:11-14</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Heb+2%3A9">Hebrews  2:9</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Pe+3%3A9">I Peter  3:9</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Jn+2%3A1-2">I John  2:1-2</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+10%3A11-16">John  10:11-16</a>
<ul>
<li>Calvinists use this passage to support their beliefs on limited atonement.?  They claim that the sheep here are the &#8220;elect&#8221;.</li>
<li>This passage does not say who the elect is.? Their mistake is in assuming  that people cannot and do not decide to change into sheep in Jesus&#8217;  fold.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ac+20%3A28">Acts 20:28</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Eph+5%3A25">Ephesians  5:25</a>
<ul>
<li>Calvinists argue that these passages show that Jesus came to save a  particular people.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=1Co+12%3A13">I Corinthians  12:13</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Ro+11%3A20-22">Romans  11:20-22</a>?- People can be added and removed from the church.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17">John 17</a>
<ul>
<li>Calvinists argue that Christ is praying for the elect in <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A1-11">John  17:1-11</a>.</li>
<li>Answer:? Jesus is praying for the eleven faithful apostles.? This harmonizes  with <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+13%3A1">John 13:1</a>;  <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Lk+22%3A13-14">Luke  22:13-14</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mt+26%3A19-21">Matthew  26:19-21</a>; <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Mk+14%3A16-18">Mark  14:16-18</a>.</li>
<li>Jesus is speaking in past tense about these apostles and His relationship  with them up to this point.? <a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A6">John 17:6</a>,<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A8">8</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A12">John  17:12</a>,<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Jn+17%3A20">20</a>?-  Jesus things that only make sense with reference to the apostles.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Did Jesus die to save people or make them savable?
<ul>
<li>Calvinists argue that Christ died to directly save people.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
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			<enclosure url="http://berserko.org/podpress_trac/feed/640/0/2009-09-23-david-watson-calvinism-part-12-limited-atonement.mp3" length="1" type="audio/mpeg" />
		<itunes:duration>0:00:01</itunes:duration>
		<itunes:subtitle>Calvinism Part 12:? Limited Atonement

By David Watson

Benchley, September 23, 2009

	I Timothy  2:3-6
	Titus  2:11-14
	Hebrews  2:9
	I Peter  3:9
	I John  ...</itunes:subtitle>
		<itunes:summary>Calvinism Part 12:? Limited Atonement

By David Watson

Benchley, September 23, 2009

	I Timothy  2:3-6
	Titus  2:11-14
	Hebrews  2:9
	I Peter  3:9
	I John  2:1-2
	John  10:11-16

	Calvinists use this passage to support their beliefs on limited atonement.?  They claim that the sheep here are the "elect".
	This passage does not say who the elect is.? Their mistake is in assuming  that people cannot and do not decide to change into sheep in Jesus'  fold.


	Acts 20:28;  Ephesians  5:25

	Calvinists argue that these passages show that Jesus came to save a  particular people.
	I Corinthians  12:13; Romans  11:20-22?- People can be added and removed from the church.


	John 17

	Calvinists argue that Christ is praying for the elect in John  17:1-11.
	Answer:? Jesus is praying for the eleven faithful apostles.? This harmonizes  with John 13:1;  Luke  22:13-14; Matthew  26:19-21; Mark  14:16-18.
	Jesus is speaking in past tense about these apostles and His relationship  with them up to this point.? John 17:6,8
	John  17:12,20?-  Jesus things that only make sense with reference to the apostles.


	Did Jesus die to save people or make them savable?

	Calvinists argue that Christ died to directly save people.


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